#031: People and Purpose: Shaping Studio Culture

00:00:01: Hello, welcome to the answer podcast.

00:00:02: My name is Paweł Buża and I'm joined by my friend and co-host

00:00:05: PaweŁ Mielniczyk.

00:00:06: Hey everyone!

00:00:06: Today we'll be talking about trust honesty leadership And all things that need to build healthy thing Everything in the topic of people culture.

00:00:16: in CDPR We will meet Karolina Radziszewska The chief people officer and Marta Fortuna VP of HR.

00:00:24: This episode gonna be much more like PaweW just mentioned than just HR But I think our guests will explain it the best, so let's meet them.

00:00:49: for

00:01:03: CD Projekt Red, and I'm here only four fifteen months.

00:01:07: So relatively new?

00:01:08: Well,

00:01:08: I am here on the floor a decade

00:01:12: now!

00:01:12: We're going to have an nice conversation because we've had someone who has been here long time but you are part of this board.

00:01:18: so apart from Adam Badoski and Marcin Ivinsky that's always cool.

00:01:31: to get the perspective, because we always talk about games in a sense that okay.

00:01:34: We make revolutionary RPGs and stuff like that.

00:01:37: people know our games but they hardly ever get to see the people behind have their big vision behind it cause we always talked with developers how games are made from different perspectives or departments But having someone come in and also from both of your perspectives to talk about people and culture.

00:01:56: And the company, I feel like it's so important because we have developed a incredible cultural within CDPR and i really want to get into the weeds.

00:02:04: So People kind of outside understand how We do these things?

00:02:09: Yeah that is going To be it.

00:02:10: I'm gonna let Havo throw The first question.

00:02:12: Let us

00:02:13: start with very general pictures.

00:02:16: What does this mean In context Of game development company Like ours?

00:02:23: Okay, I will start with self-explanatory.

00:02:26: People are people and i'll start with the fact that in game development this is so important to recognize it Because of this creative element in what we do, right?

00:02:38: We need to somehow embrace the humanity and every single person that comes here.

00:02:45: This is not that we shouldn't do it also outside of game development but... Here it translates directly into the quality of work people are doing.

00:02:55: so we have to understand them as individuals, as people or resources.

00:03:02: The second part is culture And this is about the fact that we need to have our way of doing things, like... This probably easiest and truest definition for culture.

00:03:17: How do you think?

00:03:19: What's good or not good ?

00:03:20: What gets rewarded , what get punished ?

00:03:22: Why are we thinking in a certain way ?

00:03:27: We need intentionally create it so ... People who come here can be the best versions of themselves and consequently, produce the best version that they could possibly produce.

00:03:41: So I would underline this humanistic aspect of it... ...and underline these aspects of creative freedom we'd like to somehow create for people joining us.

00:03:59: Yeah, to build on that It's easy or easier To find talented people out there in the market because this is a big industry.

00:04:08: They are telling me definitely and then throw them all together right?

00:04:13: And just assume that magic happens.

00:04:14: And it does not like.

00:04:16: you have to be very deliberate.

00:04:18: deliberative about kind of environment you bill for them.

00:04:23: Do your point too.

00:04:24: allow them to be creative, but also collaborate.

00:04:27: well.

00:04:27: And this has been an interesting journey for us.

00:04:30: as we grow and the complexity of diversity internally also extrapolates... We need to find ways still connected right?

00:04:42: When I was not here with few people then there were over a thousand.

00:04:48: Those numbers matter and the environment is built here, in different countries.

00:04:54: It's a building an environment that has now remote work also... ...and it changes how we collaborate or communicate with each other.

00:05:04: So yeah thinking of how to build something like this every day everybody has their part in it.

00:05:09: but what Karolina said was about how do you think?

00:05:13: the way processes are built.

00:05:15: And it seems like not important, but every day there's rituals around how we meet when you send a message to each other and so on... That all shapes here!

00:05:26: What I liked about our company is that they have a core which remains as it was from the moment i started here.

00:05:34: It still exists.

00:05:35: But then the little tweaks around them constantly change and adapt because also the new generation comes in.

00:05:43: The newer technologies are available to us, ways of communicating.

00:05:47: so culture is a thing that has not stopped changing for us and we try to catch moments or opportunities there.

00:05:58: Yeah, I think a lot of guests that we have always highlight.

00:06:01: We kind of thrive in chaos and i feel like That is something has stayed with CDPR for a long time but were also becoming more structured when it comes to the.

00:06:11: you can mention processes The things how we do the pipelines How we Do work across teams And stuff Like that.

00:06:18: so Were also evolving.

00:06:20: But there's this element thats kinda there Chaos Of craziness pushing boundaries and doing things like people wouldn't even imagine.

00:06:30: Like we always liked to put the bar high for ourselves, then we kind of have high expectations when it comes to people joining us but also uh... When it comes just overall culture having people come in from different generations But also from different countries bringing their own experience From different companies which they've seen How other companies operate versus how we operate.

00:06:53: So it's a lot of like moving pieces, but there are things which were still the same and I really liked what you said that human resources really sounds like a disposable resource- Resources!

00:07:05: That kind of views... And then you throw in works?

00:07:09: You make your game done But its not.

00:07:11: It is like..you need to build a long lasting culture And I feel like it's super important.

00:07:16: if you take into account the fact that we're working on triple A RPGs, these are big projects for that span across multiple years.

00:07:25: Take a lot of money and a lotta resources in terms of hard work determination all that jazz?

00:07:33: How is to kind keep the culture happy when half people still want to come back every day where they know its gonna be stressful?

00:07:41: there will be things that need done.

00:07:44: Somehow everybody's still smiling.

00:07:46: Everybody is happy.

00:07:46: you see people on the corridor, everyone like yeah I'm having a great time but your working in next freaking Witcher game and it was all good.

00:07:54: so how do we keep that culture sane let say?

00:07:58: There one thing that you said actually reminded me of the metaphor for this culture.

00:08:05: when i joined I was like, oh my god!

00:08:10: This is a fractal.

00:08:12: So you know the fractals are this organized chaos?

00:08:15: You have all these small things that come together and somehow they create shape which makes sense.

00:08:22: so it's very fractal culture i would say.

00:08:26: And its great because it allows people who move electrons to have an individual feeling of contribution or meaning And at the same time, to participate in something that gets together.

00:08:42: I'm not sure if it's too metaphorical of what i am saying.

00:08:45: Oh!

00:08:46: I get you and the point about chaos is very important here... ...I remember when I started a long time ago.. ..I was kind of stressed by it like confused.

00:08:57: It seemed.

00:08:57: first nobody knows what they are doing there is no structure.

00:09:01: a few months in, I understood that this is not the case.

00:09:05: And what was unique and my actually renewal of motivation here when they started it was... That we give everyone so much impact!

00:09:16: They have a say.

00:09:19: The source for chaos there because if you all had something to say with different perspectives then they bounce into each other.

00:09:25: It seems like its chaotic right?

00:09:27: But these are creative processes.

00:09:29: What conversation about?

00:09:32: I say AC in the room, which is always because of this topic

00:09:35: that we have.

00:09:35: As far as I recall this topic depends

00:09:38: exactly here.

00:09:39: it isn't my point or This is some feature in the game and this Is the same magic?

00:09:46: We call Magic and sometimes use it sarcastically.

00:09:49: It's exactly dead.

00:09:50: so then our challenge Here to build processes structure And shape it around but not too overdo because then we limit that and not to leave it completely without some rules around them.

00:10:06: Because they will collapse, right?

00:10:08: So... That is amazing!

00:10:10: And the second ingredient for him was actually encouraging people to take ownership of the car.

00:10:18: The motivation that both of us regain here at the drive which you see every day requires this bold step of okay, I will risk it.

00:10:29: Okay this is my take right?

00:10:31: And i might be wrong.

00:10:33: and you know people might challenge that they may feel stupid for a moment there...and then we'll learn as the team from them!

00:10:41: This something through onboarding.

00:10:43: all these new people joining us in such big numbers every year..we see how they change like are realizing oh god this is allowed.

00:10:53: And this is a lot of, like my favorite thing from the beginning was when I was told only in my onboarding then here everybody can have say even the most junior person and that's

00:11:05: right.

00:11:07: Then running into... A few weeks later Adam Badovsky ran around with his idea what guy?

00:11:17: I don't really know him.

00:11:18: We talked over coffee, he's from Junior somewhere but i invited his to this meeting and he will share his perspective when they're like.

00:11:25: okay so that was not a corporate slogan there.

00:11:28: That is the real deal.

00:11:31: Embracing it and understanding for us Is the first step To be able to shape the culture.

00:11:38: Yeah think you need to cultivate space within A company to have people actually feel You know, they have a say.

00:11:45: They feel like what do you matters?

00:11:47: But I also feel it's a sense of belonging kind if we mentioned that If go to place where find people who are on the same wavelength as your so you're kinda like... You don't understand each other without anything.

00:12:03: Feel comfortable enough actually having an opinion and start pushing for things which would be cool because You have a space in which you feel comfortable.

00:12:14: Yeah, so I think that's super important.

00:12:15: So keeping that going is

00:12:17: yeah That's all about building teams there right?

00:12:20: So, we said about diversity.

00:12:23: Our teams.

00:12:23: to make an RPG game it takes a lot of people like four-to six hundred people from different countries working some of them in house and remotely.

00:12:31: different specializations you have like software developers artists back office people businesspeople.

00:12:38: It's so many different specialties and backgrounds experience of peoples or how.

00:12:41: what are the tools actually?

00:12:43: cultivate the sculpture and make sure that people we hire, they'll be properly embedded in this system.

00:12:48: And there will be this creative

00:12:51: chaos

00:12:51: where you

00:12:52: have some kind of boundaries.

00:12:57: I would start with a short goal... This is one thing which brings people together And actually, this is the strongest possible bond between people when they share the same goal.

00:13:10: The second are the rituals... ...the way we work with each other and how to shape our identity,... ...the fact that we stand for something or represent it.

00:13:24: We have shared values outside.

00:13:27: these main points in practice of course translate into many, I don't know activities processes etc.

00:13:34: but when you look from the helicopter view like let's have a short goal we do.

00:13:43: We want to make really great meaningful games.

00:13:49: On top of that, we have the rituals here.

00:13:52: We have identity which stands for something with values.

00:13:56: so this is how it was created.

00:14:01: For me also to add on to that important part is understanding each other's role in process right?

00:14:08: Every day I work very specifically and aim at having a best possible version.

00:14:18: But then this is a part of something bigger.

00:14:20: And I like how you started that question because you painted the picture broader than on game dev parts, also there are other supporting functions and these all big organisms... It's really hard from an individual perspective to understand them.

00:14:39: see it as role for us leaders Because we do collaborate in this narrower group of leadership Every day together and this is our role to be able to understand each other.

00:14:52: Each others roles, And build those bridges the rituals that Karina mentioned The tools but also like basics Like basic communication understanding Um...and Also learning moments of that right.

00:15:03: so uh how?

00:15:05: How we need to balance where a bottle next me waiting for you For five months deliver on something it's way Worse than me helping you out in some moment that we can start sooner etc.

00:15:19: And then those things add up into one game, We all want to.

00:15:25: Carolina's point.

00:15:25: like the shirt go is Bringing two are gamers?

00:15:29: The most amazing product right.

00:15:31: so So to do that the collaboration is the key and this again sounds like a slogan.

00:15:36: Right but it's harder easier to save at them done Like really and we all We all think that, okay.

00:15:43: I know how to do that right?

00:15:45: And then i look at your job and seems like you're doing a good job as well!

00:15:50: The thing here is we actually try change it into an advantage.

00:15:56: so before the companies have been working for their idea was set clear boundaries sort of walls.

00:16:04: So if someone tells me they did something wrong You will focus on yourself excel at it, which is great for some companies.

00:16:12: For our company as you asked about like specifically for gain devs It's actually better that you take a peek on my side give me a comment That I will hear and maybe You know taking into account.

00:16:25: And then things start changing and benefiting from the complexity instead of struggling and tripping over it?

00:16:33: So we do a little bit of tripping A little bit learning.

00:16:38: Do

00:16:40: you feel like it's more difficult now, especially that we're working across multiple projects.

00:16:44: We have multiple teams and or do you feel there is always within every team?

00:16:50: It doesn't matter if its Witcher or cyberpunk of his hate are fit serious or fits whatever the other people.

00:16:57: they're embedded kind of as people who share their culture.

00:17:01: so all cultures pretty much same.

00:17:05: The cultures within the different teams is a little bit different, but there's one common goal that kind of

00:17:11: brings it together.

00:17:12: There are local variations I would call it and But there is court.

00:17:17: There is something specific about us all that we share And when you were talking guys started to reflect on two things.

00:17:28: One is very intentionally bring people on board who are able to have this open minds and open perspective, actually understand that others are others.

00:17:41: It doesn't mean it's wrong or right so I'm not talking about some of the... This is not affirmative action Or a necessity for us To actually have this ability embrace different perspectives.

00:18:02: So this is the only way to do something that's as complex, creating and shipping a game And definitely more people with more perspective.

00:18:12: The interactions are getting harder and harder.

00:18:17: Are we perfectly organized?

00:18:20: No!

00:18:21: Sorry.

00:18:25: Are we sure that every single person within the company buys into our values and our way of work?

00:18:34: Of course not.

00:18:35: But what we need to have are mechanisms, so actually catch it somehow deal with it.

00:18:43: So this is a trick here And I was also reflecting on my own journey, as i said only fifteen months and I started from the point okay this is super interesting.

00:18:57: job, my kids love to play the Witcher.

00:19:02: Actually I'm a cool mom now and i want keep it that way but is was still at job when they got to the point where maybe willing to die in kill for you know delivering game.

00:19:14: so there's something within company that really helps us to get together and understand this goal, increase our motivation with time instead of getting bored.

00:19:31: If I were to define it... I don't know, what it is.

00:19:35: It's there!

00:19:36: I experience

00:19:37: this.

00:19:37: Something special in the air that

00:19:39: can motivate people?

00:19:40: The passion is contagious and i've seen how it was changing you... ...I remember how it changed me And also like for me.. ..I thought being a gamer enough to your point about complexity I'm so blind.

00:20:00: make that game, and I'm still

00:20:01: learning.

00:20:04: It's wild really!

00:20:07: And again you asked about the diversity complexity of things.

00:20:12: how does it change?

00:20:13: Is is hard... very hard because for us not to miss something crucial or be blinded by my own perspective, right?

00:20:24: I've been here ten years so i don't have a fresh eye.

00:20:27: We don't agree often we discuss things and so on... I need that, Karolina needs it as well!

00:20:34: So the challenge is higher.

00:20:37: but thats why im here for ten years.

00:20:39: I haven´t been born in single day at CDPR.

00:20:44: I come to this office And I like the people i meet, and I really like them.

00:20:50: It's not politeness... ...I want to spend time with them here.. ..and they are amazing human beings right?

00:20:58: So they inspire me!

00:20:59: They take me off sometimes!

00:21:03: But again ,i feel alive here !And im not just doing my job Like, you know this is the difference.

00:21:09: So and I might be sometimes happy to do Karina's point before like the happiness of the permanent happiness This isn't not a thing It can never happen.

00:21:20: And then actually The controversial point that i want To make Is That Through Struggles We Bonded it.

00:21:25: we don't create the struggles.

00:21:27: but But this how the teams come together?

00:21:30: Okay the idea at the goal it sets the ground Then we see each other, what would bring to the table.

00:21:37: But then with struggle where there are some problems occur.

00:21:41: and how do you handle that?

00:21:42: How does it support one another or learn from them again when we actually trip over them?

00:21:49: right now I mean the obvious turning point for our company The cyberpunk release.

00:21:55: everything around us talked about so much time but they want to aim at higher scale the high level scale of a whole company.

00:22:05: And when I think of our CDPR as an organism, this was the biggest learning opportunity and we jumped on that like... We were never doing it again!

00:22:17: We will not do those mistakes so we need to... It happened at all levels.

00:22:24: The board was discussing it, VP's directors' leadership levels and then individual contributors Like you before, like oh BSTEPF was thinking.

00:22:34: Oh HR previously called Was Thinking and all the teams were trying to get something from it.

00:22:41: To never trip like that again.

00:22:43: And this change our company so much!

00:22:46: Now we benefit From It.

00:22:47: now We have to Never forget it.

00:22:50: Keep on learning throughout less mistakes in future.

00:22:54: This is fascinating.

00:22:56: Actually, this was one of the things that brought me to The Company because we were discussing with different board members.

00:23:04: Me joining The Company for a pretty long time I think it was about a year or something so We're discussing and discussing And what actually made me realize That This is The Company that i want To work With?

00:23:22: two Things.

00:23:23: One Thing Is how the cyberpunk situation has been handled, what kind of reaction has been to it because that gave me an understanding.

00:23:36: That this is a company actually willing look deep into its heart and conclude and act upon it.

00:23:44: And second thing was... I will call passion or drive-to quality for better word.

00:23:55: after meeting all the people in my very, very long discussion slash recruitment process.

00:24:02: I realized that... All these people are deeply concentrated on delivering something they believe is good and i was like okay!

00:24:13: These are the people who want to work with me.

00:24:18: this is not

00:24:20: commercial

00:24:21: endeavour uh, a creative endeavor.

00:24:25: So that was something that definitely brought me on board and I think anyone who needs this kind of environment will thrive here.

00:24:34: Well said well said i think always like keeping quality in the back of our heads is always there but also Like I mentioned before pushing A little bit The boundaries Of what it's good enough for us because we say Good Enough is not good enough.

00:24:48: It used to be super awesome may be happy with it, but then we move on to the next project and say how can we top ourselves here.

00:24:57: I think is incredible.

00:24:58: like this isn't the most beautiful thing about us company?

00:25:00: that we are never always brave enough to make change right?

00:25:03: It's never following same path.

00:25:04: every single projects a different story.

00:25:07: you know things happening in different ways.

00:25:10: We try to make things better And i think its absolutely fantastic both in terms of organizing our teams But also as said with games.

00:25:20: If we are close to release but not happy, what do you do?

00:25:23: We change things.

00:25:24: You know... We

00:25:26: clip the table because

00:25:29: it's about quality of game that want make and this is great.

00:25:34: So a lot.

00:25:35: culture I guess part leadership.

00:25:39: team build teams get right people to make sure they all cooperate as a team.

00:25:47: the most important aspect you also mentioned is like this team building, working together right?

00:25:51: Sharing experience.

00:25:53: Also being open for communication with others helping them when they need that etc.

00:25:57: So what kind of leaders do we need

00:26:02: in CDPR?

00:26:04: Yeah so first to our point before.

00:26:06: We have diverse teams.

00:26:09: generally I would say there's no one You know, box that you need to feel and those kind of people only will make good leaders here.

00:26:17: And I don't believe that's ever the case.

00:26:19: teams very there needs very different phases, different times and so on.

00:26:25: but first thing about being a leader here That i've learned and it really see as core is To allow yourself be authentic.

00:26:36: It not about skills its about boldness With all

00:26:42: the,

00:26:43: you know... everything that comes with it.

00:26:46: So first step is of course admitting I don't know everything so i dont'know what do mean.

00:26:52: explain or not have to be an expert.

00:26:56: The challenge in our industry but specifically for us as well everybody's passionate about their work.

00:27:05: they want experts and principles top notch creator.

00:27:11: And then from their perspective, sometimes the leader's role seems not that great.

00:27:17: I have to deal with those people and it is actually opposite in my take.

00:27:22: so you need be the most passionate The skill we need for a leader to get talent help them collaborate And they have the vision.

00:27:35: They had a vision for either game, depending on role or specific feature of something that are working.

00:27:41: but there holding it and making whole team work towards is satisfying.

00:27:48: But at beginning most experts who has potential to be themselves enough about product They don't really think that, they don't see yet the connection there and kind of influence.

00:28:07: You can have on their actual product but more and more it's changing.

00:28:12: how do you see your own leaders through that?

00:28:16: because always like saying people come to company right?

00:28:20: And leave from the boss here just stay for them as well hopefully most cases at least.

00:28:27: So how do we help them?

00:28:29: Someone is the first-time manager, switching from a role of expert for example as senior to an uh First-time Manager.

00:28:35: Getting a team getting all these responsibilities having to switch from craft to team oriented approach.

00:28:41: How do you have any tools

00:28:43: before we go into it?

00:28:45: I would like to add on the previous topic because there are certain qualities that easily say that are the qualities of a decent human being, and they're super important when it comes to being a leader because you have influence.

00:29:02: You have some power over somebody else's life so... ...you wouldn't like it be very authoritarian or very egotistic person.

00:29:17: So we need leaders who are authentic, who are vulnerable and carrying but also know how to set boundaries whenever the boundaries needed.

00:29:33: And they have an integrity.

00:29:36: so they have integrity, courage to admit their own mistakes.

00:29:41: They're not building things for themselves recognition or for the credits at the end of something, but actually they take into consideration that there are also other people involved whose lives are equally important who are equally valuable as themselves.

00:30:05: So I think this is super-important and honestly we're not perfect like all make mistakes And this is very, very high expectation from a human being in general.

00:30:18: It's really complex process and so there are like outside two parallel processes happening.

00:30:25: There Is This maturing as A Human Being who is able to actually have decent relationships with others and To use the power that has been given to them In a good and smart way?

00:30:42: how to manage, show it and respond in different conflicts or situations.

00:30:51: There are areas where we as a company can help but there is an area that the company cannot.

00:30:58: You

00:31:00: need to go through the situation.

00:31:01: Self-awareness, you know?

00:31:03: Your work with yourself your readiness To actually do it.

00:31:07: and there's a company we do

00:31:08: A lot back

00:31:10: to Marta And is

00:31:11: great because bringing up very important point.

00:31:13: and Do your question about how How did journey starts when becoming a leader?

00:31:18: It actually starts way earlier Because those traits Those qualities are Important in whichever role you're holding at The moment.

00:31:28: see the potential.

00:31:28: We give them tools, psychological tools and team-tools to individual insights of different kinds.

00:31:36: This is a feedbacking company so we feed back each other not only about products but also way that we collaborate with, communicate all the time which is something you build.

00:31:49: this openness towards it's okay.

00:31:52: I can benefit from Like the end of the world when I get back feedback, i have material to work on and that's a great opportunity.

00:32:04: To get more self-aware and mature And we can be happy.

00:32:08: many roles like in process coordinator product owner or you know.

00:32:13: just take A topic Take ownership of the topic and those are like little leaders.

00:32:20: They're not maybe title that just yet But they're already growing those skills.

00:32:28: And so the process is kind of smooth there, and then their specific individuals that are willing and eager to take on the formal responsibilities... ...and actually this year before we do a lot where it's like an acting period with still liberty designed for taking some pressure off.

00:32:51: So acting, I'm just going to say like before you become a manager or lead in this case.

00:32:55: You get the title of Acting for a year where your kind of it's an additional trial period for you two.

00:33:01: first of all Get All The Training that you're supposed To Get In Order To Like Get Ready To Lead Which Is One Of The Trainings That We Have And Then You Actually Become once the year passes, you are fully equipped to take on your role.

00:33:14: So sorry it's great.

00:33:16: from experience is more like representative when comes from you.

00:33:23: but yeah that's the purpose and not only for you to train.

00:33:27: also allow yourself make mistakes.

00:33:30: learn from them right because this need of being perfect is there with ambition.

00:33:38: Over that year, there is a lot of attention.

00:33:41: A lot of feedbacking and small steps.

00:33:44: you can reflect on the tools we set for our leaders And then also There are ways to try and take a step like two paths The expert path and the leader's path.

00:33:58: They go hand in hand.

00:34:02: Often enough people switch here or there.

00:34:05: I've been a leader and now in that project, i will be the expert.

00:34:11: And then...I lack that influence!

00:34:13: I need to come back with it so they grow into their director's role for instance.

00:34:18: So what l like about our company is we build all workshops & trainings from scratch.

00:34:27: We very rarely from specific skills like, okay I need to learn Excel.

00:34:32: There is a thing on the shelf out there right?

00:34:35: But for all of us we build them with our people and managers who are aspiring team members And then they change as we go so that Taylor made it for us.

00:34:51: The growth does not end after the year as we all know, right?

00:34:56: Keep on being poor.

00:34:59: HR partners are coming to you okay!

00:35:01: You're now a director for her.

00:35:05: and then they say oh there is this program that show your skills in action and you get feedback from all around, so on.

00:35:16: So there are many tools... And then again we give our leaders an individual proposal.

00:35:23: There is of course a path that's set because it's built on the crucial skills for us as managers at REDD.

00:35:31: but apart from everything being based on your actual needs We never end growing!

00:35:38: It's fun.

00:35:39: Yeah, I really liked what you mentioned about also fluidity when it comes to like moving from becoming a leader and expert in the given field that we allow people.

00:35:47: Really?

00:35:48: To have this open-like there's openness for you to try different things kind of see depending where you are in life at a given moment if do want to be more working with people on managing your team or Do You Want to Be The Person That Excels At One Thing And Kind Of Like Pushed The Boundaries On That And Then Maybe After That Like He Said Move into the lead role and then maybe from that move on to a director or like.

00:36:12: there's so many possibilities.

00:36:14: Um, That if you're a person that kind of likes this let's say more of a loose structure where you can Kind of fluidly moved from one point to another.

00:36:23: This is a space in which

00:36:25: we will thrive.

00:36:26: Yeah I could really shape it too To be something that suits and fits Let's Say The U. but also potentially In the future You Can Kind Of Mold Yourself In A Sense to fit a different role and kind of like be in between roles, stuff.

00:36:41: So I really liked that.

00:36:42: there is no strict rules.

00:36:44: if you're a lead you need do from A to Z And thats only your wiggle room.

00:36:50: There's actually more room for you To create your own path.

00:36:54: What i've also really liked about CDPR Is If you feel good at something or passionate About Something You just have pretty much go grab it You know, wrestle with it.

00:37:06: And if it works out like this could be your path and something that you're the direction that you have which is also very freeing because sometimes...you go to a place where you are given role and need kind of stay within that role.

00:37:23: If I am not really evolving just staying in one space that has boxed me move any other way.

00:37:30: But if, uh, If I want to progress only can progress in one way.

00:37:34: so it's like similar comparison to a game Like there are games that require you to go through like

00:37:39: a

00:37:39: corridor but they're games open up and You can do whatever he wants.

00:37:43: So i feel like It actually applies To how we work with people And leaders and teams.

00:37:49: This very gives us so much energy Um A lot of freedom.

00:37:55: Freedom is important here

00:37:57: Yeah, and

00:37:57: one thing to add.

00:38:00: there is that also for like our team members individual contributors this working in feature teams, strike teams.

00:38:08: And these often results with them changing their path of expertise.

00:38:14: so it's not only managers an expert switching back-and forth between those two paths but also individuals.

00:38:22: Oh, I see that animator.

00:38:24: He's doing cool stuff and we are collaborating more and more!

00:38:26: And i'm learning more there... ...and actually thinking okay now maybe I can go in this direction right?

00:38:32: Here you have the ability to take ownership of your own path within the needs of course.. ..of a project or company possibilities.

00:38:42: We can do it.

00:38:43: Actually what is happening for industry recently?

00:38:50: It feels like such a privilege to be able to offer our team members so many possibilities.

00:38:56: We are constantly growing, breaking record of new hires every year and it's great that we can invite all those Newtown people in the company also give different opportunities for projects from those who have been with us longer.

00:39:13: That is actually part genuine intention to do so.

00:39:17: That's part of the reason why it is possible here, because for people who work in a corporate environment or an environment where industry isn't developing they might feel that sounds too good.

00:39:40: There is definitely an element of good fortune for us, like the fact that we are growing opens up so many possibilities.

00:39:48: And this is something that allows to allow people choose their own path and be flexible in what they're doing.

00:39:55: We have multiple examples.

00:39:58: I even think about our colleague from internal communication who switched into role of the producer, right?

00:40:04: So that's not a very standard approach or standard possibility.

00:40:11: But let me be honest part of it is the fact we've been super successful and therefore also can grow and therefore expand possibilities for other people.

00:40:27: What I want to say is that it really is true.

00:40:29: This is not just a propaganda speech, but part of it actually the circumstances we are in which is great.

00:40:39: let's take advantage

00:40:56: coming into the company, what are the type of let's say people that thrive here versus people who might feel like they might not thrive?

00:41:08: I would start with authentic.

00:41:10: I mean, i've heard it so many times if you're authentic People will get you.

00:41:16: They'll accept the fact that authenticity also means your vices, but you do have to be authentic and communicant well.

00:41:31: One of our colleagues when I joined told me that just be expert in a field And if you are an expert on your fields then later i understood it's not only about expertise But actually being passionate Be authentic.

00:41:52: That was that were two things that stood out for me,

00:41:55: either you need a passion?

00:41:57: I mean skills are one thing.

00:41:58: Passion is something that yeah Yeah You can't really learn skills.

00:42:03: you can learn the passion to just have it and you feel like.

00:42:06: so Like you mentioned.

00:42:08: So It's Authentic .

00:42:09: So its not something that has just crafted as.

00:42:11: oh i really liked this but do you Really like this?

00:42:13: ?

00:42:13: Yeah ,I love This song.

00:42:14: if you If you Love it then you will gravitate towards it.

00:42:17: Yeah, I want to also tackle the overall kind of stigma which i think doesn't exist anymore.

00:42:26: Which is a fact that games are an industry that's male driven and male dominant.

00:42:36: but what do we do in order to empower more women?

00:42:39: And have more women joining The Gaming Space as a company?

00:42:42: Let us start with this statement are majority in this industry still, right?

00:42:51: So there is a certain legacy.

00:42:55: And historically men were also the majority of the gamers and while the society developed it stopped being only men thing to play.

00:43:09: This is not only boys who are playing, right now we're approaching probably more or less half-half when it comes to gender split and gamers.

00:43:20: And this isn't like oh my mom plays Candy Crush!

00:43:25: It's also RPG game.

00:43:30: Therefore This is not our want.

00:43:38: I don't know some social justice thing, this actually a necessity to bring perspective into the company.

00:43:50: Yes, historically male-dominated industry has to learn how to create an environment where women feel welcome and they can bring their perspective.

00:44:01: And actually be as effective and creative... ...as they should be To have that perspective in the games That go also into female gamers.

00:44:15: So as I said, it's a necessity.

00:44:17: For me this is the way like working on the environment that is embracing diversity in all its aspects including gender diversity creating an environment where people are willing to understand each other.

00:44:31: make mistakes yes but at the same time they're open for these different perspectives.

00:44:37: and to the beginning of the funnel.

00:44:44: And this is like really, This is almost existential challenge for us.

00:44:49: we really need this perspective inside because this also gamer's perspective.

00:44:53: I Like it Because It Feels Very Organic and It Is Supposed To Be Organic Like You Said.

00:44:57: Its Not Filling A Quota its Reacting What Is Happening Within The Industry and Actually Giving a Space In Which People Can Thrive.

00:45:05: That Applies.

00:45:07: Everyone doesn't matter like your beliefs, your genders whatever.

00:45:11: Like everybody has a space where they can thrive and feel like there is the space for them?

00:45:16: Yes And this base does not create it artificially so you can go their but its more like hey This is a place for you were actually feeling yourself one hundred percent.

00:45:26: Yeah I liked how we phrase that because what makes me really angry Is when i see talent goes to waste.

00:45:36: It can go to waste in many different ways, but it's your question.

00:45:43: Being a good girl doing girly things would be wasting talent!

00:45:49: It was so eye-opening for the first girls in games summary and show their work with mentors... It's incredible.

00:46:04: and then the same thing.

00:46:04: And this is not about like gender, it's about the culture that we've been building their stereotypes in.

00:46:12: maybe they're not valid at this point but where?

00:46:17: shaping for decades?

00:46:18: who have now on a job market right?

00:46:22: So first things are mission there to say everyone you all to our industry.

00:46:30: You just have to have this talent and passion, drive... And we don't really care what kind of gender or views you've got on life.

00:46:40: We welcome you!

00:46:42: We can do something amazing together right?

00:46:45: For me as a female reader through my own path it's about giving myself the right and risk being wrong, not going for perfection.

00:47:02: And it's not only for leaders but this is a very women-y trait that isn't reserved to us like the impostence syndrome or all those.

00:47:12: For artists who create they are constantly being reviewed.

00:47:18: their work has been assessed by so many people.

00:47:21: So getting into that, if you have this approach of like oh I want to avoid being pointed at in a negative way and so on.

00:47:29: It shuts down the path right?

00:47:31: That's what we want to be shaping both externally and inviting new people in our industry but also internally And give them Yes!

00:47:43: You can apply yourself.

00:47:45: try and for instance internal recruitment processes.

00:47:51: We really encourage people,

00:47:52: take part.

00:47:53: The worst is what can happen.

00:47:55: you get valuable feedback.

00:47:57: it's not like you failed right?

00:47:59: You tried!

00:47:59: It's already a success and again sounds cliche but this is what shapes us.

00:48:04: we take chances.

00:48:05: so

00:48:06: yeah

00:48:07: I had to break through my own limitations several times too To take bigger responsibility to see that okay i have the potential and grow, deliver value for the company.

00:48:24: All of us have that one way or another so we build bonds with each other on it.

00:48:30: And yes specifically the female aspect as I'm a female.

00:48:35: but there are many different ways to connect the basic human thing, right?

00:48:45: We need different perspectives including gender perspective.

00:48:53: stereotypical IT person versus stereotypical artists, right?

00:48:58: They also have to find a way to understand each other and somehow bond over something.

00:49:04: So gender difference is not the only one And I would say that probably it's not most difficult one to overcome.

00:49:13: It's not the gender difference per se but behaviors come from different.

00:49:17: socializations of different genders create an environment where people are willing to kind of embrace these differences in the same time that they understand that embracing ends when you're hurting someone.

00:49:33: When your crossing somebody's boundaries, don't be toxic!

00:49:36: Don't hurt other.

00:49:46: It doesn't mean they don't have differences of opinion, it means... Don't do things that are harmful.

00:49:55: Just listening to you my mind went into the cultural differences that come from different ethnic backgrounds and different nationalities.

00:50:04: And how now with our growth in Boston That becomes such a bigger topic.

00:50:12: Now I will publicly say and ignorant I was, at least.

00:50:17: Because i really thought that... ...I do get the American culture!

00:50:22: Really?

00:50:22: I've been there so many times.. ..i have so many friends.. ..I've been living with my uncle for twenty years in one house like.. Yeah, I got

00:50:30: it!!

00:50:31: I'm such an

00:50:32: agrarian!!!

00:50:32: I had no

00:50:32: clue!!

00:50:33: I am really opening my eyes more & more.. And those are similar cultures.

00:50:39: we have so much different ones.

00:50:40: From our first months-in , I remember how were trying to think what kind of rules do we set for each other when it comes to talking in your own language, say incantine.

00:50:51: Right?

00:50:51: So we have people who speak that language and how to make sure that people are not like shutting down from others.

00:51:00: they cannot join the conversations because they don't know a language at the same time that they can feel this is their home right.

00:51:07: And there's so many peoples form all different nationalities here in Poland.

00:51:10: moreso They want to feel at home here but also with what they bring.

00:51:15: So their language, the bodies who come from there own country and I remember how it was changing How we were experimenting?

00:51:25: Okay don't do in your open space when you teammates cannot join a conversation But then go on coffee and have things surely.

00:51:33: And now its so natural That's not an issue anymore.

00:51:36: Another layer of that is like okay We've been multinational for years since I joined at least probably many years back.

00:51:45: But now we have those two hubs, Warsaw and Boston And the dynamics is changing.

00:51:50: The complexity is growing Including.

00:51:52: that's why we realized that We started flying there more for longer Really to breathe air To feel that in our guts To change perspective.

00:52:02: It really sometimes had to explain.

00:52:05: You have experience it.

00:52:08: There is a learning opportunity here for me as well.

00:52:11: It's been almost three years since we started North American Boston studio, and how would you say what are the biggest challenges actually there?

00:52:18: And what surprised you in the process of creating this studio... ...and propagating these people and culture between continents?

00:52:28: I can't say that sorry.

00:52:30: Well, as Marta mentioned cultural differences bigger than we expected.

00:52:37: And I loved one thing how our American colleagues found a life hack, How to communicate with Polish people?

00:52:46: They realized that if they are too optimistic and everything goes too well then We stop trusting the message!

00:52:52: So...they said That they sneak One bad thing into each & every Thing that they're saying because they know that we need it To feel this is trust worth it.

00:53:05: And they started to do it intentionally, but I loved that!

00:53:08: It was like... They recognized and we found a way to communicate with.

00:53:13: sometimes still don't fully understand each other?

00:53:18: Do things are somehow insensitive on the other side?

00:53:24: We're definitely getting.

00:53:28: time difference doesn't help.

00:53:30: I mean, speaking of challenges you probably thought about something much more sophisticated than time difference but the thing is that they overlap does not allow for um uh the amount of interactions that creates this bond because there is no way to create bond and trust without their interactions.

00:53:47: and-and the time overlap just...because it's so short then it requires more time to build this amount.

00:53:55: Yeah, that's the second thing.

00:54:01: Probably we are new as an employer on American market and also convincing the markets to stay which is the case by the way... We're actually investing in something not just this unknown brand from afar far east

00:54:29: from

00:54:31: where the polar bears walk that we actually know what we are doing.

00:54:36: We can create this great games together and then we can invite you into this world, And we've been working on it for three years already with successes because I know that our employer branding brand awareness is, I think doubled since we started.

00:55:02: So more people know about us.

00:55:04: but now you have to convince them this really safe and sane place to work.

00:55:11: That's definitely a challenge!

00:55:13: We are doing it.

00:55:14: Yeah first

00:55:16: from me

00:55:17: since I've been trying to convince many of very experienced American professionals, come and move to Poland for years.

00:55:26: This is such a sweet moment that we can only be convincing them!

00:55:31: Come to Boston.

00:55:32: Of course, Sanny Califonia and all that

00:55:34: the weather thing

00:55:36: but I love Boston is so such an amazing city And it's so safe.

00:55:41: It's the safest place that i've been in the states

00:55:43: of european.

00:55:45: So

00:55:45: yeah The vibe

00:55:47: there Is great.

00:55:48: But uh... Jokes aside We are very well known From our products stable company who hires people and they grow there, not yet.

00:56:06: And it's a new thing because in Europe we are so well established with... We have such strong position that if you had so many candidates like trying growing on feedback they got the recruitment then eventually get into them.

00:56:23: This is really sad to watch what happens around all of these layoffs.

00:56:27: People were really cautious a lot by relocating to different parts of the States.

00:56:36: To company that is coming from East, some are hesitating and now it's much easier because we already have their big team And there are so many stories, and you know people in this industry.

00:56:51: even it's such a huge group as is in the state they talk to each other.

00:56:55: So of course... There're many who have heard from someone that already working at company or their friend.

00:57:03: That is actually great!

00:57:07: You can go there, start there and grow there and enjoy.

00:57:11: but yeah the consciousness understandable is something hard because only so much we can say, right?

00:57:21: Yes.

00:57:21: We are in a privileged situation as the company but it's too good to be true.

00:57:27: almost from their perspective The way bigger companies than ours are shutting down projects whereas... ...we're growing.

00:57:35: So sometimes they need someone who they trust and know more then some recruiter that met for first time to hear it from.

00:57:45: So yeah, that's why we need tools like employee branding too.

00:57:48: put those messages out there and make sure they all those talented individuals can just make decisions based on facts.

00:58:00: And the challenge is interesting.

00:58:04: You asked what surprised us.

00:58:08: My first focus when I started was little group of veterans that build wheelchair game and really have their CDPR DNA in the heart, they ship them there.

00:58:25: And

00:58:26: then around them very cautiously we handpicked a very experienced directors to be core of team there.

00:58:38: but main thought was how make sure red culture will be there.

00:58:46: It sounded like the thing to do at that point, and don't get me wrong it's still valid but this is a back-and-forth.

00:58:53: now I mean... To the point before like the nagging of Polish people Like.. I'm very optimistic!

00:59:02: But you know those little things for stars were sources of misunderstandings and confusion.

00:59:11: Okay, maybe that's something we actually can consciously take into the room.

00:59:18: a CDPR culture and like reshape it here in there, right?

00:59:22: Have us hear in Poland be changing things?

00:59:26: make more to that note.

00:59:28: And really took as first two years I think too broadened the perspective.

00:59:34: open ourselves up

00:59:35: without losing identity

00:59:37: and then exactly

00:59:38: the

00:59:39: identity.

00:59:40: at such pace of growth this is still our main Focus because no matter where if the team grows so fast.

00:59:50: There are so many newcomers like half of them are working in a low year, right?

00:59:56: So that is always very difficult and they come from different companies.

01:00:00: They shape there were shaped in a different way.

01:00:14: I'm convinced that we do it like that, but you come from a different company and then they're very differently.

01:00:19: So there is the benefit because we can learn, we can consciously pick which approach is better for our product

01:00:25: etc.,

01:00:25: But It's very confusing!

01:00:27: And so yeah... There are many times.. It's so interesting!

01:00:32: Also working in a team where ninety percent relatively new hives from our perspective.

01:00:42: They are in a different country, they're new hires... ...they are from different companies with different habits.

01:00:50: Different

01:00:50: walks of life?

01:00:51: Yes and all come in masses right now!

01:00:56: So it's like oh my god how we not flooded by this different perspectives and experiences.

01:01:03: How do you keep your core?

01:01:04: ?

01:01:07: also teach them and somehow pass on to these things that do keep us together here.

01:01:14: So this is a challenge, it's not easy!

01:01:18: Paul in me just kicked it.

01:01:23: It's a lot of traveling back and forth for sure, but

01:01:26: this is fantastic that we're not trying to push our ideas on the culture there ,but you also adapting something learning .

01:01:32: You know?

01:01:33: And building a team because the

01:01:35: Red Culture Force

01:01:38: is very strong.

01:01:39: so it will stay with us, but to be the proportion like that.

01:01:49: It's not there for a fact is not their.

01:01:52: so we cannot lose dad this what makes our game so special?

01:01:56: yeah So This Is Like A Nogo Like This Is Zero One and That In Those Frames We Can Learn A Lot.

01:02:04: But yeah, definitely the core will remain and the craziness, ambition.

01:02:09: The chaotic creation... And working on quality till then so-and-so.

01:02:15: It's

01:02:15: interesting I think because especially in states you mentioned that industry is way older much more established.

01:02:22: there are some certain rules.

01:02:23: you know companies operating similar ways for years decades In Poland.

01:02:26: we're relatively new to market.

01:02:29: So this something might be interesting and refreshing from people instead of joining our company, saying how we do games in a European way.

01:02:39: Yeah now I realize that you can describe it as replacing judgment with curiosity.

01:02:45: so like before making the judgement let's just explore what is there.

01:02:50: sometimes our freestyle can have an upside and sometimes ways are well established they that can bring something to us.

01:03:03: So it can be two ways exchange, but the It does require suspending judgment for at least long enough To find out what's on The other side.

01:03:14: Yeah you also mentioned kind of like this field Of employer branding and I feel Like sometimes its used too to showcase or paint a picture.

01:03:23: that is not entirely true.

01:03:24: And what I've seen and actually the feedback, which was like super surprising for me when you people join they would hit me up on Slack saying hey i watched the podcast.

01:03:39: everything guys talked about there really is the thing that's happening within a company.

01:03:45: It's so genuine, it's true and real.

01:03:47: I don't want to put my own horn like we're doing this podcast because you wanna showcase The people behind the company but in realistic way not without.

01:03:56: This is our agenda for this episode.

01:03:58: We want to sell these five points to you and your personal watching, You need to like get those five points in your head.

01:04:04: any end?

01:04:04: And we're not doing that there's.

01:04:06: no it's no like hypnotistic trick That I'm trying.

01:04:10: people actually came to me now was like wow!

01:04:13: This Is Actually Working Like.

01:04:14: I never thought about this.

01:04:15: i just Wanted To Show My Cool Colleagues That We Work Together And We Have Fun And We Do Cool Things And Showcase The Culture Behind the Company.

01:04:22: But Thats Pretty Much It Like I Didn't Think It Would have that big of an impact.

01:04:26: And it's really cool to see like people come from, you know years of experience from different companies and say Like wow the stuff that you guys do here is just so freaking genuine So cool You're so open to feedback.

01:04:39: Everything they talk about this is real.

01:04:41: It was like.

01:04:42: That's amazing!

01:04:43: So its' Really Cool To Actually Hear That We are Doing This Not in a way because we want to just lure people and then say like, oh here I have cookies coming over.

01:04:53: But it's real is true as genuine.

01:04:55: And everything that we talked about today i feel Like Is About Just Being Genuine Being Real Giving People A Space To Be Themselves And not Trying To Create Artificial Kind Of Thing Around It.

01:05:09: That'S What I Also Love About It.

01:05:10: So Yeah Its Really Cool Awesome Perfect!

01:05:14: This was a super interesting conversation.

01:05:19: Thank you both, and I hope everybody will enjoy this episode because it's really nice.

01:05:24: deep dive into how we operate the strings in between Move Around and CDPR.

01:05:31: so thank-you for taking time.

01:05:36: Thanks

01:05:40: for having us!

01:05:45: run

01:05:46: and how the people influenced the culture, how we built leaders.

01:05:51: And everything that was mentioned in this episode.

01:05:53: I hope you enjoyed it once again!

01:05:55: Don't forget to comment like subscribe all that jazz.

01:05:57: let us know what your thinking about episodes.

01:05:59: of course see

01:06:00: ya next time.